Electric Bike conversions

[KT Roughneck]

Well, since our choices in electric bicycles are currently limited, there are a lot of people doing conversions to normal bicycles.

Issues that arise include weight placement, new frame stresses, and suspension modifications.

I think it would be helpful for those doing conversions to list any experiences that people have had with these issues as well as identifying good bicycle stock to work with.

First of all, here is an excellent listing of bicycle related links that might be useful to those considering a conversion project. The link listing is focused on recumbent designs, but list many non-recumbent specific resources:
http://bikes.jkcc.com/links.htm

One issue relates to hub motors on front suspension forks. The additional width and size of the hub motor shaft often requires some modification of the fork to get things to fit. The additional weight of the hub motor combined with (perhaps shoddy) modifications to the fork has caused several to fail in the field creating a safety issue and possible injury to the rider. Can't ride very well when your front forks break. Some have gone so far as to assert that hub motors on front suspension forks are inherently unsafe, but many disagree and in fact, many manufacturers design systems like this. So FYI, and beware on that issue if you are doing a conversion or mods.

Hub motors are an excellent choice for EVs, due to the fact that no power transmission (chain, belt or shaft) is required, and direct drive hub motors (no internal belts or gearing) are nearly silent in operation. These are the powerplant of choice for many conversions as hub motors greatly simplify the conversion process. Here are a couple of links:
http://www.crystalyte.com/
http://www.wildernessenergy.com/

The choice of bicycle frame is critical of course. The most high tech electric bicycle on the market is the Tidal Force by Wavecrest. They utilize the Montague Paratrooper frame. I am a real fan of this bike as the folding mechanism is the best I've ever seen. No structural tubes have been cut to enable the fold. That makes for a stronger frame.
http://www.militarybikes.com/para.html

Another option is to go with a non-folding full suspension frame. Anyone have any recommendations on this option? I've ridden a few full suspension electric bikes, but they were all purpose built designs.

Lastly there was a guy in England who was working on a full suspension, lithium powered hub motor mountain bike with some serious performance. I'll see if I can find a link.

[Oakhill Flyer]

I don't have any experience with them but I almost got a WE brushless hub motor for my Trek 7200. However, the Wilderness site had a warning that they were not to be put on aluminum forks, nor were they to be put on front suspensions. Well, my Trek has both!

In addition, they were going to have to file down the dropouts, which also concerned me. The LBS said they've never had any trouble with those issues but they were also unaware of the warning on the WE site, which made me wonder how much they keep up with things like that. :rolleyes:

This is the main reason I bought the Lashout. I felt that if it was designed to be a turnkey electric bike, I might have fewer issues. I'd love to be riding my cherished, lightweight Trek but I didn't want to change out the fork and by the time I added the cost of the mods, I was going to be paying the same as the Lashout anyway.

So my plan is to commute on my Trek every now and then and gauge my improvement after riding the Lashout "tank" awhile. :)

[KT Roughneck]

there was a guy in England who was working on a full suspension, lithium powered hub motor bike with some serious performance. I'll see if I can find a link.I found the link, but it appears to be a blank page right now. The bike I was referring to is Steve Head's Dirt Monkey. Does anyone have any current links for his projects or products?

http://www.technicalbikes.co.uk/

These were feather weight, high speed, full suspension, and durable.
Here is a photo that was posted by Brushl3ss on the Voltage Forum:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/brushl3ss/twolions.jpg

[Buzzz]

Here is mine.

This is something like version number 12..... i keep improving on the desing.

The major thing with conversions.. you usually buy them online and have to do the work yourself... in my case.. this is a bonus. I like working on these things !! :D

The front forks on my Giant are dual crown .. and the 4 series WE motor fits in the dropout WITHOUT any file work. My previous bike had to be convinced to accept it.

As far as power goes.. legal sheegal.. 36v is TOO SLOW... go with 48. I was a sitting duck riding on the right side of the road at 36.. :eek: .. cars still pass me at 48, but not as quickly.. they creep up on you and kinda pull over and give you room once they look at their dash and realize you are actually cruising !!11 ;)

Do not install these things on sub-standard brakes.. you need stopping power, V-brakes are a minimum option.. disk brakes would be better. My old bike had cheap horseshoe style brakes and they litterly felt like banana peels on wheels.

The modifications are endless... if you are that kind of person :rolleyes:

I found out quickly that the lower priced racks that hook up to the rear axle and to the back of the frame do NOT hold up in rough terrain... I ride hard.. and i went thru 2 of them in a few short weeks.

I got a schwin seat post rack.. it looks cooler as it hovers over the rear wheel , and is much stronger than the cheap racks frequently available.

the 40 lbs racks.. i have not tried.. i assume they hold up ok.. but no personal info... get a quality seat post rack.. or mount the batteries in the frame or as low as possible to the ground.

[KT Roughneck]

How is that Wilderness Energy (WE) hub motor treating you? I've heard that it is not nearly as robust as the Crystalyte motors, but obviously having a brushed design makes controller and voltage mods a lot easier.

Do the WE hubs have a disc mount option? I have decided that a disc mount is a necessity in my own designs as I hate chewing up rims and love stopping on a dime. Avid makes an amazing cable pull disc brake, let me tell you.

It is weird to me that Tidal Force didn't incorporate a disc. They must not have wanted to lose the space in between the forks.

[bobh]

Actually, the WE motors are pretty tough to kill. I sure have tried, but it keeps on running. I get into some wild places, and am disabled, the WE brushed motor gets me back just fine. I ran mine with a Crystalyte 505, it out pulled me by a little bit, but was not as fast. It also sucked amps like crazy.
He was running 36V, 18Ah, mine is 36V, 12Ah. My range is a lot better. I can run at least 18 miles, in traffic, 10 on the dirt trails. I still want someone with a Tidalforce to show up in the woods, I might surprise them. :D
http://photobucket.com/albums/v244/tsiya/

[KT Roughneck]

Good data! Thanks! What about overvolting them (with an appropriate controller), and what about disc brake mounts? Does the WE brushed motor support either of these options?

[bobh]

Good data! Thanks! What about overvolting them (with an appropriate controller), and what about disc brake mounts? Does the WE brushed motor support either of these options?
The WE brushed is supposed to handle 72V. It doesn't have a disc brake or rear wheel option. I stopped keeping track of mileage at about 500, 80% of it in the woods. I know of one case where a WE brushed was being run at 60V direct, no controller, and the brush holder overheated and deformed, but this was a pretty extreme test. As far as I know, these motors are made by Golden Motor.
I haul 3 cameras, a tripod, a portable blind, granola bars and drinking water, and it amounts to a pretty good load on a bike running around on dirt trails. If the motor breaks, I will just have to sit until someone finds me, unless I am really close to the road.
BTW, on a rutted dirt road, front wheel power will pull you out of a rut where the wheel would just slide without power.

[Buzzz]

Mine is the BrushLESS model.. and yes .. they can have disk brakes with the proper motor cover i'm told... Mine does not have it so i'm stuck with rim brakes for now.

My 20 A controller, came stock at 36, i've been running it at 48 now for a few months.. HARD.. and no problems yet.. i have mounted 2 huge heat sinks on the bottom fins for added protection, but it ran without them just fine.

The Thumb throttles on these WE / Crystalyte setups are less than stellar, the magnets on the HALL sensors keept coming off on mine.. had it apart a few times so far.. but that's about it.

The motors should be able to handle quite a bit of overvolting, as at 48v 12 a/h SLA pushed to max against hard winds.. it just gets a tad warm.. not even hot, at 36v.. it stays cold.

I plan to hop mine up to 72v NIMH, 10 A/H , on a 20 inch rim next year for my friends to follow me around on..

As i'm building an electric dirtbike for myself as a primary ride !! woot !

[bobh]

I went with the brushed because of my disability, it pulls a little better from a standing start. The range and speed are actually a little better than I hoped for. The problem with the ebike \escooter thing is that so many people are out to trash talk anything different than what they have. So far as I can tell, Golden Motors stuff is as good as anything out there.

[KT Roughneck]

yes .. they can have disk brakes with the proper motor cover i'm told..Who should I talk to about this option? I didn't see anyone mentioning it. What are some good reliable sources for WE motors in the US?

The motors should be able to handle quite a bit of overvolting, as at 48v 12 a/h SLA pushed to max against hard winds.. it just gets a tad warm.. not even hot, at 36v.. it stays cold. I plan to hop mine up to 72v NIMH, 10 A/H , on a 20 inch rim next yearSounds like a nice plan. With the higher voltage, the pack won't have to provide as many amps obviously, so the NIMH pack should still provide a decent power level overall.

Too bad they don't offer a rear hub version. That can be really important depending on the rider.

[brushl3ss]

I found the link, but it appears to be a blank page right now. The bike I was referring to is Steve Head's Dirt Monkey. Does anyone have any current links for his projects or products?

http://www.technicalbikes.co.uk/

These were feather weight, high speed, full suspension, and durable.
Here is a photo that was posted by Brushl3ss on the Voltage Forum:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a248/brushl3ss/twolions.jpg

Yep, the site doesn't work. It can be viewed some using Google cache though: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:MmGBMl1d_k4J:www.technicalbikes.co.uk/

There are some of his videos here:
http://brushl3ss.web1000.com/

Anybody who hasn't seen them, be sure to check them out. Awesome bike.

His bike was probably my inspiration to make one. I'm trying to make a similar one. But he went a little too far with the 16" wheel on his later bikes, in my opinion.

[electricmike2]

i cant get on the site but i have the three videos i can email to anyone interested
mike